What do you do if your family member is a victim

Hi, I'm not sure if this is the right place for this post but I was directed here from the 419eater forum.

I've trawled the internet to find support for 419 scam victims and found generally only one type: support for the victim. I have not been able to find the other type: support for the families of the victims. People who are at their wits end trying to cope with a family member who is so deeply invested in these scams he or she is beyond help.

I am such a person. My parents have been caught up in Nigerian scams for more than 12 years. They've lost everything but are still at it. The children tried to intervene but to no avail. My parents, who are in their 80's, having been forced to deal with fake promise after fake promise, bank accounts broken into, threats of home forfeiture and so on, are slowly going insane. The psychological toll have ripped the family apart, irreparably I fear.

Perhaps they are beyond help but what is not beyond help is the rest of the family where tension is overflowing. I am looking for group support where one can discuss and share methods of how to deal with such a situation.

If this is not the right place to discuss this, could someone direct me to a place that is?

Thanks in advance.

Welcome, Hachi. I'm very sorry to hear of your situation. While I don't immediately know where to find the support you need I feel that such a thing must exist, even if not in such a specific form support groups will exist for victims of crime and their families. I'll do some digging around and see what i can find, and I'm sure the rest of the crew will do the same.

Thanks for your quick response Nailgunner. I appreciate it.

A bit more background to my situation. To my knowledge, these are the African scams my parents have found themselves snared in over the years:

1. Wash wash scams (black money)
2. Juju man scams (black money, washed not with chemicals but with prayers)
3. Advance fee fraud (relatives of some 'dead prince' in Nigeria wanting to transfer money out)

The latest one, the story goes, is coordinated by the 'World Bank' with the country's Central Bank and the UN to purportedly release USD$200 million to my parents because my folks are 'such good people,' according to the scammers. As usual, the catch is my parents must beg borrow and steal USD$2 million to pay off the 'World Bank' in admin fees up front to let that transaction through. And to do that, they have pledged the deed to the last remaining property they have - the roof currently over their heads.

The officers of this 'World Bank' have been careful to contact my parents only by telephone, never in person, saying that this transaction must be dealt in complete secrecy because of tax laws etc etc.

As always, no amount of talk would convince my folks that this is a fraud, even though they have walked down this road and got burned like 10 times in the last 10 years. This time its real, to them. And they've been been saying the exact same thing the last 9 scams.

Hi Hachi, in the lack of any other websites for support, please feel free to continue posting in here, all th esupport staff here have experience in dealing with people in denial over scams, and while your parents case is certainly the most extreme I have seen so far, it is by no means beyond help.

There are things you can do as a family, but first all of you have to decide to work together, and do things that may seem harsh, but the alternative to not doing anything is to watch your parents lose everything.

Firstly, their phone number needs to be either changed, or the scammers numbers need to be blocked. the latter option is usually the easiest

Then you will need the assistance of either local law enforcement who have an understanding of internet scams, and unfortunately, they will be hard to find, or failing that, if they have a church or religious leader they have trust in, that person needs to be bought in to explain, over and over, that they are being scammed.

The really hard bit to do, is when all possible soft options fail, is have your parents declared incompetent to manage their own financial affairs, and have their bank accounts etc put into trust, and your family will have to agree on people to run it for them.

There are no soft options for you at this stage, if what you have stated above is what is happening.

Please reply

Hi John, thanks for replying. Here's what my siblings and I have done together and what we were unable to do thus far. Some might address the suggestions you've made.

A change in phone number. Yes, we've been doing this at least once a year. It hasn't been effective because my parents would seek out the scammers to 'play.' They've got a list of contacts hidden somewhere and the fact is, my folks have gotten so hooked to the game the scammers need not look for them. They would seek out the scammers, sneaking out of the house in the dead of night if need be to meet up with these people, and come back with suitcases of black money, stuffing them in places they didn't think we'd look.

Getting law enforcement involved. The standard practice is to arrest both the scammers and those that abet them, and unfortunately my parents have abetted them by looking for other people to join in these illegal schemes or at least, spoken to many to finance them. There has been complaints and we don't really want mum and dad to be led off in handcuffs.

Religious leaders. Tricky, because dad IS a religious leader. He has been leading congregations for the last 40 years of his life. He is a highly regarded personality in his parish. My siblings and I have in private asked several senior people in his church to counsel him on the problem, which happened. But all advice has fallen on deaf ears. No one outside a few knows about his double life although there's been rumours. I do not think his heart can take a full public outing.

Declaring parents incompetent to manage their estate. Any assignment of powers of attorney requires their voluntary signature. I've asked dad several times for this and he has refused. It is possible to overrule it in court on psychiatric grounds but he has flatly refused to avail himself to any kind of mental examination (I've asked). Without it, there is no basis for filing an an application.

In addition, we've asked relatives and friends to intervene with reason and they have, but its all fallen on deaf ears.

Even cutting off all financial support to starve these schemes of oxygen hasn't worked. They're resourceful enough to find money somewhere, somehow, without us knowing.

That is the situation.

Welcome to scamwarners Hachi, so sorry to read that it has been due to such trying conditions.

While you, your siblings and family friends have not lost money, you all are victims of those scammers. You have endured the psychological and emotional trauma due to those scammers. The loss of trust in your parents can be devastating. You all are welcome to read/lurk/join here at scamwarners. There are lots of helpful people here and there that can listen to your stories and answer your questions.

Sorry to zombie this thread, but it is the first time I have found something similar to my problem and I truly hope the OP has found some resolution.

First off we live in South Africa.

My story is quite similar. A few months ago my dad died after a tragic industrial accident (you know the ones where someone says to you later on "Oh my god, that was your dad. My husband who works at another company heard about that and told me". He got badly burnt when a machine with a giant vat of superheated water overflowed. He survived that, but had third degree burns over 70-something % of his body. He struggled for a week in ICT, and passed on 6 days after the accident.

Sadly my parents marriage wasn't great for a while before he died, but the death was a huge shock to all of us. Myself and my brother have tried to be there for my mother and help her through all of this (we dealt with almost all the insurance payouts, loans that had to be paid off, accounts, and a lot more)

It is now six months later. None of us are really over things. It is still bad in our real lives day to day (myself and my brother are both postgrad students at university who are trying to submit our thesis' this year, plus money is tight). We (sadly) still live at home because campus is literally 5 min down the road).

But to make our lives harder two months ago some idiot on my mother's facebook (she is new to social media, all of that was after my father died) sent her an automatic invite to Twoo. In days she had 4 or 5 scammers moving in on her, and was totally hooked into the site.

The first one she got scared of and asked me to block his account on her email (they all ask for her personal email address and she gives it to them). We ended up setting up a more anonymous gmail account to keep her safe, but she still gives them both email accounts). Scammer #1 was abrasive and demanding from the outset, but he was quickly dealt with.

But then the second one seemed okay, if a little forward. She didn't tell myself and my brother what was going on, instead went scuttling into her bedroom for covert phone calls. I am a bit of a Libertarian and didn't feel that it was my place to get involved, and since she wasn't sharing information I wasn't pushing it. At least at this point he was making her happy (fake as that happyness turned out to be).

A month later she got an email that she was worried about. I looked at it and saw it looked fake and plagiarised (I have taught 2nd year Psychology, and marked essays so I had an idea what to look for). That night we found all of his emails on various lovey-dovey poem websites, and his big "marriage proposal" letter led us to this very forum:

http://www.scamwarners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=9725

His story matchs up point for point. He suddenly had a daughter (28), but everything else was from the other stories there. She had a car accident (excuse to go over there, and later lost her baby (excuse not to come back to South Africa) and then took her own life (this week's excuse to not come back to SA). He has never once acted like a devastated father though, all he cares about this week is money.

I showed her all this letters and where they were online. I even uploaded them to the universities anti-plagiarism software (Turn It In) and showed her the colourful lines. She said to me that night that she just need him to let her down, she needed positive proof.

A month later she is still in the same place. Almost every day she complains to myself or my brother about how badly this guy is treating her. But when we say "you need to get rid of him" she tells us "no, what if he is legitimate. I need him to let me down again so I have proof". He has between let her down three times. We try to rationalise with her that he has let her down over and over, that he is being abusive, that he is demanding money like every other scammer. But even though I can argue logic with Philosophy professors I cannot get through to her. I just get told "he has wound a web around me, confused my judgement".

We had an insurance payout this week to cover living expenses (it was late and they were like a day away from turning the lights and water off). But my mother had promised to give the scammer "a loan" for his "broken crane". R3000 (which isn't a lot, but we really need the money right now, my postgrad employment salary doesn't go far).

Myself and my brother really got upset about this. This was money that was left to us by our dead father so we would be safe if something happened to him. She reluctantly agreed to this, but then she said she should sell her wedding ring to get money for him. I really don't know how to reply to that one.

To make mattes worse he doesn't even treat her well. He ignores her all weekend (except when he wants money), screws up every phone call with his fake irish accent - he talks quickly and unclearly so she cannot hear what he is saying and moves things back to text based chat.

Two days ago I started getting really upset and forced her to confront him. She sent the link above and asked him to explain himself. He suddenly vanished offline.

The relief I felt that this threat was gone was immense. Then the next day she sent him an email saying she was sorry, and calling me unreasonable and accusing me of interfering in her life. He then proceeded to demand money again (forcefully and almost violently this time). His plan to get the money was for her to give the cash(???????) to his "secretary". He also accused her of letting her sons run her life.

After I heard this last night I lost my temper entirely, kicked doors and broke a chair (in my life this is the third time I have ever actually lost my temper). I felt completely betrayed. My mother was out when I found out, at a church function at the time (she has never told her church friends about this scammer). I sent him a threatening email demanding that he leave her alone, telling him that I would post his details to every social media place I could find until someone got his real identity and inform the police. I was quite rude and nasty, but he deserves it.

Later on he replied to her saying she must get me under control. Since she wasn't back and I was a bit calmer I sent him another email demanding answers to some of the plot holes in his story (starting with why he had the same marriage proposal as the scammers use (BTW, my mother has received the exact same proposal from two or three other scammers).

He refused to answer my questions (ended up on gmail chat), threatened me 10 different times, and treated me like a child. My mother came home and completely sided with him. Accusing me of again interfering in her life. She ignored his threats to me, ignored the way he treated her earlier the same day and blamed me for being too emotional.

I threatened to walk out if she didn't get rid of this guy. She told me I was being unreasonable. Today he said the same thing: choose me or your sons. She has more or less decided to go with his option.

I can't live with this any more. I care about my mother quite deeply, and was by her side when her late husband was abusing her (not many people can claim they had to break up a borderline violent fight between their parents, but it is off my bucket list). I was there for her every day when my father died, even though I was battling myself. I have tried to be there for her with this scammer, to show her he is fake and just hurting her. But she seems to have chosen her side. All that is happening to me is that my stress and anxiety levels are so high that I can't sleep without medication, and am almost vibrating when I am awake.

Tragic as it seems my academic career is in social psychology, I have a strong background in IT and I am the defacto department problem solver (especially with administrative problems). And I like to think I am good at these things. I have also been helping my friends with their relationship problems since I was 15. I can see and use deep theory to explain how each part of this scam works. But there is nothing I can do to protect or help my own mother.

I have cried twice this year. Once was when we had to go to the Morgue to identify my father's body, and then now after the events of the last two days. I told her today the effect that this scam is having on everyone, her, myself and my brother. I was crying at the time (ran out of anger from last night). She agreed that something needed to be done but wouldn't say what. But then this scammer came online, demanded things from her again and she turns around like a swivel chair. Now again I am the bad guy for interfering and I need to back off, because Mr Scammer said so.

She doesn't 100% believe in this guy. She admits to every fault and problem that points to him being a scammer. But when I say "if a+b+c=scammer so get rid of him, then she keeps on holding onto some bizarre hope that maybe he is real. I know hope is the cornerstone of every scam, but I cannot rationally or empathetically get my head around her belief.

I am sorry if this seems long and overly dramatic, but I am at the end of my coping ability. I really need advice on how to deal with this. I am looking at moving out of home to save myself, but I can't really deal with the idea of leaving her to these scumbags.

Please help me. Please.

I am sorry Mike. It sounds like you need assistance yourself, and I am sure the mods will arrive and let you know what to do and contact. Maybe you can get the scammers details for us even if you have to memorise some email addresses. That would be a start. I for one, work with email addresses and more than anything they form some of my tools. Names even become email address and part of a process of checking, and I am not alone doing this. I hope that your Mother isn't going to waste money, but I am not so sure that she is, and she may be showing resistance to you, however she has the seeds of doubt sewn so that will go a considerable distance. I realise you are affected, but the best way to look at it is they are criminals and not worth losing sleep over and your Mother needs strength from outside. I hope you can gather up your resources and deal with this .

Hi began,

I have realised that and have decided to be entirely honest with some of the people that I work with (even though it is an academic department, a few staff members are registered psychologists). Some do deal with issues of domestic and physical abuse, but this sort of self-inflicted abuse is something else entirely.

She has decided to give the scammer money, despite our protestations. He wants it in cash via his secretary still, so I do not know what will happen there.

Either way it is destroying what is left of our family and that is so hard for me to deal with.

I will DM you the contact details that I do have for the scammer, but I have been unable to get his SA cell phone number as of yet.

I'm very sorry Mike.

Unfortunately, your situation is not uncommon. The effect of these scammers reaches far beyond their target, and they are quite capable of destroying families. As Began has indicated, with more information, our members may be able to dig up more evidence. We can also have a phone or email warner contact your mother; however, it would be best to have more information before attempting this.

It is of course a typical scammer tactic to try to isolate the victim from his or her family and anyone who might interfere with his payout. Unfortunately, it sounds as if you are inadvertently playing into his hands. It is important that you do not treat your mother as if she is an idiot (no matter how idiotic her current behavior seems to you) because that will only drive her closer to the scammer.

One approach that has worked sometimes is for the friend, family member, or warner to contact the victim using the opposite approach--i.e. pointing out that you really care about her happiness, and you would like to believe he is real, so you would like to go through EVERYTHING with her, in hopes you can help yourself to understand. Sometimes when you do that, you can discover all of the things that aren't real, and lead her to the conclusion herself without making her feel defensive.

Since she is active in her church, I would strongly recommend talking to her pastor about this too. Sometimes a trusted authority figure like a pastor can get through where you might not.

Thanks for message Mike. As you know I have pulled out something for you. Namely....
http://www.facebook.com/david.howels.10 and this is a scam profile that agrees with the yahoo avatar of the created yahoo email address I made from what you told me. The seemingly disconnected two share the same photograph.
As here too.
http://www.facebook.com/raphael.barnes.3


http://www.datinginasiafree.com/userpro ... ser_id=317
Glennrich90
Huston. Texas
Seems to be from W.Africa

Profile Headline
Spendid
I am 45 years old from United State, divorced, a medical doctor, working with United States Red Cross. I am a man who is caring and lovely. I'm supportive and friendly, I like to joke, cheering people up and very optimistic kind of person. Energetic and I can always exceed your expectations. I try always to assist people meet their goals and that gives me a lot of joy.

http://www.bestmuslim.com/listDetails.php?userID=69686

Martin braimoh is a 50 years old Male

[email protected]

Richard Glenn
http://www.facebook.com/glennrich90

Sadly this is the same picture that I have seen on my mother's chat for so long. Definitely the same picture-victim...

I will try to get the guy''s cell number as well, hopefully something can be done with that.

Thank you all so much! I really cannot say how much this means to me.

I am delighted to have got a result for you Mike. I hope this proves decisive. I will send you another link shortly that I am posting in SW. Without any question this is a prolific scammer with many more profiles. I know he is careful, and devious and dangerous, in his operation of scams, but I hope that I am as equally devious and dangerous to scammers.
As you know the indication is, from the information I have given you, that this scammer is working from Durban, S Africa, but we need email headers to be certain. However you must not confront this criminal AND TELL HIM NOTHING , take the evidence I have given you to the police in SA.

t..the scammers are controlling his every thought and action

I actually disagree that the scammers in control. Your brother is making a choice to believe what the scammers are saying, and ignore what you are saying.

The one exception is, if he is mentally ill and is not capable of comprehending what you are saying to him. In any case he is a victim.

he is mentally ill and the scammers are 100% in control..