Upper Canada Loans/Conservative Micro Loans

Just wanted to warn people about this company,they go under these two names
I started to apply for a loan with these people and I sent an email telling them that I want to speak to someone before proceeding.but they then went into my bank account and never contacted me at all and took out $256.00,which will now cause my other monies coming out to bounce.I spoke to a Mr. Alli,who told me to contact Ben..off course,he would not provide me with a phone #,just told me to email him. I called my bank and they are now investigating, as I did not authorize these people to go into my account...No papers were signed,no warning that they will be going into my account and I was also told that I did not qualify for a loan even though I did not send them my Id...thank God !

These guys are big time scammers..They have not called me back or advised when my monies will be returned.

You don't need to tell me "You should have known better" I know that already.I just do not any one else to go through this as well.
Thanks

I'm sorry this happened to you. Do you have any email addresses they used to contact you, or the name of the website they were using?

edit: I've checked their website, and their "secure" application form does NOT use SSL. My advice would be to contact your bank and tell them your account has been compromised. It's doubtful you'll get your money back, but you should do this anyway because you submitted your bank account information over an unsecured connection.

Thanks Scott,

I have contacted my bank and they are conducting an investigation into the matter. They suggested that I come in and close the account,open up a new one and they for my other PAC, they will automatically allow them to go through. I did get a contact person's name for this company,by the name of Mr. Alli @ 416-454-6556 and he is from a place called the Approval Store. I called him and he says that his colleague Ben is the person that takes out the money from the accounts of potential loan clients.. Off course,he would not provide me with his info.

Ohh, I forget to mention that I can also put a request with my bank to stop withdrawals coming out from my bank account from these people. I will choose that for now and then head into the branch and switch out the account.

Thanks,
Amaleeta

OMG... i am so completely sick. I have never been scammed online before and this company took 334.87 out of my bank account . i didnt know what it was about so i called my bank and they said it had my name on it so the only think they could do was an investigation and i have to fill out a form to dispute a preauthorized debit ,,, i am sick about this , i am a single mother on disability and that money came out of my widows pension that i just got on friday ....sick sick sick ..wanna throw up!!!
I called the police and they are coming to do a fraud report i also called the # that is listed here for a Mr Ali with the (416) area code phone # which is toronto and he answered and laughed in my face.
call your local police dept and report this internet fraud and theft of your money NOW... and i took what little money i had left out of my account to save it.
also you can call the national anti fraud centre at 1888-495-8501 mon -fri est to report them also ...THEY MUST BE STOPPED !!!

Just some observations of a general nature. I live in the UK but the same general legal principles apply.

Without an authority your bank has no legal right to charge your account with anything. You may be uneasy doing it, and you would be right to be cautious, but the harsh truth is that if the party originating the charge doesn't hold your legal authority to do so, your bank has to refund you. How they get the money back is up to them. Your bank is the guardian of your money and it is their responsibility as to whether or not the other party has legal authority to charge your account.

You, as an individual, can't go in to your bank and originate a charge to another account and normally only substantive companies can do so, but they're still obliged to ensure that they hold a proper authority. If they don't, and they're misusing the ability to originate charges, the facility will taken off them, but they will have signed an indemnity enabling funds taken in error to be recouped from them.

Knowing your account details DOES NOT give any right to charge your account. If you issue a cheque it gives details of your account and a specimen of your signature. In the UK a payday lender alleged it had account details submitted by fraudsters together with the birth dates of innocent victims and it issued hundreds, if not thousands, of charges with no legal authority to do so. The company was shut down and all payments were refunded.

You can form a legal contract online, and the steps and details as to the legal requirements and when the contact is actually formed is likely to differ from one country to another.

One thing that puzzles me is that no one mentions whether or not the original loans were ever received. If you never received the original loan, then it would appear self-evident that the charges are fraudulent.

I'm not a legal expert. I do not know Canadian law or the details of these particular circumstances, but if you've never received the loans to which these repayments supposedly relate, then I would feel inclined to repudiate the charges, and leave your bank with the problem.

This may interest you

http://www.bbb.org/ottawa/business-reviews/loans/upper-canada-loans-in-ottawa-on-47097

Specifically

In Ontario, it is illegal for a loan company to charge an advanced fee for a loan. All fees should be included in the borrowing cost of a loan.

Looking at the website it appears that they only offer to put you in contact with lenders and not arrange a loan themselves. The point will then be what they claim they were charging you for and whether, if it was an advance fee for a loan, it was a legal charge and whether you actually ever agreed to pay it.

The company is 7940696 CANADA INC.

according to the website and its details are recorded here

https://www.ic.gc.ca/app/scr/cc/CorporationsCanada/fdrlCrpDtls.html?corpId=7940696

though you'll note from the BBB website that it is alleged that the recorded registered address appears to serve no current function.

The agreement on which the company appears to be relying is located here

http://www.uppercanadaloans.com/pre-authorized-agreement

How these agreements operate are officially described here

http://www.cdnpay.ca/imis15/pdf/pdfs_publications/consumer_guide_pads.pdf

The charge appears to relate to

Our service is to introduce you to qualified lenders. For this we charge a fee. Fees for this service vary for the amount of the loan and the length for which you require it.

However under the Consumer Protection Act, 2002 (if it applies in your state)

http://www.isthatlegal.ca/index.php?name=loan_brokering.consumer_law

It is an offence for the loan broker to require or accept payment or security for payment before you receive the credit or the loan of money that the loan broker is assisting you to obtain.

Also they do not appear to have followed their own stated process.

http://www.uppercanadaloans.com/loan-proces

It may not please your bank but I'd feel inclined to repudiate the charges. If there is an organisation from whom you can obtain free legal advice I'd pay them a visit.

Another issue is why they would attach a recurring payment authority to their brokerage fee (and a brokerage fee is widely defined under Canadian legislation) which isn't payable anyway until the loan is made. More logically the lender would pay them from the proceeds of the loan, but in any event they don't even follow their own stated procedure.

Although it was foolish to deal with these people it isn't uncommon to complete recurring payment authorities even when money isn't yet payable, to pay utilities for example. It's quite a common practice but it doesn't give anyone the right to utilise it when payment isn't lawfully due. There are other issues but that appears to be the main one.

ideally you should seek to get your bank to return the charge as not being lawfully payable as I suspect you'll have a difficult job getting anything from the company.

As an aside, it is interesting that it is mentioned that it is illegal to seek an advance payment in respect of a brokerage fee, as it it is a general principle in law that you cannot authorise someone to do something illegal. I'm not legally trained but this could be significant as it might make whatever action you took to authorise the transaction meaningless and ineffective.

I'm really sorry this happened to you. I wish I read about this before I did the same thing. As for me they took 80 dollars from me. Maybe cause I asked for a smaller loan. Either way they went into my account without telling me and how much they were taking. I never signed for anything and they never even emailed me back after I filled out the application. I knew nothing at all. Good news is my bank is going to put my money back for me. I can't believe this happend. So if this happened to you months ago, it's still happening today. There site has not been shut down yet. So they are still doing this to people. Very sad.

In consideration of the above, I believe the registrar/webhost should take this site offline.

6 206.126.236.43 16ms 16ms * TTL: 0 (eqix.dc.godaddy.com fraudulent rDNS)
7 184.168.0.73 64ms 63ms * TTL: 0 (be39.trmc0215-01.ars.mgmt.phx3.gdg fraudulent rDNS)
8 184.168.0.73 63ms 65ms * TTL: 0 (be39.trmc0215-01.ars.mgmt.phx3.gdg fraudulent rDNS)
9 216.69.188.30 64ms 65ms * TTL: 0 (be100.125.trmd0215-01.ars.mgmt.phx3.gdg fraudulent rDNS)
10 216.69.188.126 64ms 64ms * TTL: 0 (ip-216-69-188-126.ip.secureserver.net ok)
11 173.201.53.166 63ms 62ms * TTL: 54 (ip-173-201-53-166.ip.secureserver.net ok)

Conservative Micro Loans

http://conservativemicroloans.com/

Is now just an ad for godaddy.

The previous discussion:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=26928

searching 416-454-6556 finds The Approval Store
http://approvalstore.ca/

(another phone 416-247-6888, seems to be real car dealer, very small)

approvalstore.ca registry whois
Updated 1 second ago - Refresh
Domain name: approvalstore.ca
Domain status: registered
Creation date: 2012/08/19
Expiry date: 2015/08/19
Updated date: 2013/07/31

Registrar:
Name: Go Daddy Domains Canada, Inc
Number: 2316042

Name servers:
ns19.domaincontrol.com
ns20.domaincontrol.com

6 206.126.236.43 17ms 18ms * TTL: 0 (eqix.dc.godaddy.com fraudulent rDNS)
7 184.168.0.73 63ms 62ms * TTL: 0 (be39.trmc0215-01.ars.mgmt.phx3.gdg fraudulent rDNS)
8 184.168.0.73 63ms 65ms * TTL: 0 (be39.trmc0215-01.ars.mgmt.phx3.gdg fraudulent rDNS)
9 97.74.255.129 64ms 65ms * TTL: 0 (ip-97-74-255-129.ip.secureserver.net ok)
10 50.63.71.163 61ms 63ms * TTL: 55 (ip-50-63-71-163.ip.secureserver.net ok)

What I want to know is , why is this company still advertising???? People have lost money to them as have I also , so why are they still aloud to have a website?? I don't get it.

There is no company involved. There is a guy making fake websites pretending to be a loan company.

I know people have reported this company cause I read that. I also put a complaint in about them. But I guess they have not been caught yet. They are still doing it.

By "company" i mean, an organization that has registered with a government, someplace, stating who the responsible person(s) are, and how to find them. You cannot sue them if you don't have a real name and address.