Looks like a recurring theme

I think I've stumbled on a repeat offender

My wife recently tried to book a room in the Neatherlands.

Everything was going fine but a few issues raised red flags for me - specifically around how they wanted payment. They took 50% of the rental (not unusual for down payments from my experience). But now they are telling me I need to bring in cash the entire rental payment and they will refund me the 50%. Huge red flags here.

Before jumping to conclusions I did my own searching.

They are all over the place on their corporate relationships.

The bill I recieved says it is from PCS Pte Ltd
Which is an energy company in Singapore

But the the bill comes from [email protected]
CPS.COM.SG is a new site (only 4 months old) and it doesn't have a real web presence and it is not related to PCS Pte Ltd it is tied to GREENSTAR CAPITAL PTE. LTD. (which is the same as the company referenced in the previous post).

I searched on this name and found this topic on your site.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11184&p=37447

Now the emails we are getting come from yet another domain which is strikingly similar to the one from the other post above.

Domain Name: amsterdamcentercondominium.info
Updated: 1 second ago - Refresh
Registrar: Directi Internet Solutions Pvt. Ltd. dba PublicDomainRegistry.com (R159-LRMS)
Status: CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED

Expiration Date: 2012-05-20 06:22:06
Creation Date: 2010-05-20 06:22:06
Last Update Date: 2011-05-19 13:47:10

This has been around a bit longer than the one from the other post its on its second year.

So I'm leaning to concluding this is a scam. But I would like some advise on how to handle this because I really hate being out the 50% rental.

I also just realized the creation date on this amsterdamcentercondominium.info is the same as the one from the earlier post.

20-May-2011 06:29:14 UTC for AMSTERDAMCENTERSOUTHCONDOMINIUM.INFO
and Creation Date: 2010-05-20 06:22:06 for amsterdamcentercondominium.info

Hello and welcome to Scamwarners!

If you could post some of the emails we will be able to confirm if this is a scam but from the domains you posted this does not look good.


You said "bring in" the payment so did you physically give them a payment or did they ask you to wire the money? If you have in fact wired them money through Western Union or Money Gran I'm sorry to say the money is as good as gone. If it was a bank to bank transffer you may be able to talk to your bank about reversing the transaction. May still be a long shot but worth trying.

Justin

Below is one of the email threads. Now based on the email thread it doesn't sound too unusual (well the justifications seem sound).

The oddities are when the emails are compared with the phone conversation (they called us).
On the phone I was specifically told that I would pay half up front and then would need to either pay in cash or by electronic funds transfer the other half and the 200 EU deposit.

Another oddity is the number they provide below is a Singapore number - which they did not mention anywhere that they were working out of Singapore.

They have been pressuring us to make sure we have a cell phone so we can call them when we arrive at the trainstation. At which time we will be give a 30 minute window to exchange the cash for the room keys. The invoice they provided says an hour not 30 minutes and when pushed my wife was able to get more realistic time frames.

As far as lost funds go we have probably lost the 475 EU charge to the CC. Unless I can prove they did not provide a service they promised the CC will not investigate the charge. And based on the email chain, unless I give them all this cash up front they won't provide the keys to the room.

Dear Mr <tartaros>,

Thank you for your patience.

The amount due (invoice is sent to you shortly) amounts to EUR 1150,-.

To date EUR 475 was paid as a guarantee by CC.

At arrival, you will be asked to pay up 950 EUR in cash and 200 EUR Damages Deposit (fully refunded at key hand back and leaving unit clean/free of personal belongings and in good condition as per T&C)

For your convenience, you can let us retain 200 EUR at checkin from the earlier paid up 475 EUR, which we will release again on last day at key hand back. The remaining 275 EUR is released back to you on arrival at full payment of EUR 950.

If you have any questions, please contact me through the Central Desk +65 972 80 598. This number should also be called at check in for getting connected to the agent on duty, as it reconnects to the agent on duty's mobile.

Best regards,

Illynia Stann

---
Sent from my BlackBerry® device

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [email protected]

Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 03:56:08 +0000

To: <tartaros>

ReplyTo: [email protected]

Subject: Re: <tartaros> has contacted you aboutCentralStation(RiverView)-Parking - Roof Terrace, Amsterdam



Dear Mr <tartaros>,

I will check the amount with receivables, but it is correct that the amount is due in cash once you accept keys.

Best regards,

Illynia Stann
---
Sent from my BlackBerry® device

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From: <tartaros>

Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 11:00:38 -0400

To: <[email protected]>

Subject: RE: <tartaros> has contacted you about CentralStation(RiverView)-Parking - Roof Terrace, Amsterdam




Just so I understand completely I will need 1100 euros in cash for the key hand over is this correct?

<tartaros>



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: <tartaros> has contacted you about CentralStation(RiverView)-Parking - Roof Terrace, Amsterdam
To: <tartaros>
From: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 14:15:49 +0000

Dear Mr/Ms <tartaros>,

I can fully understand the practicalities and complications.

The majority (in fact all) of the owners we deal with use our services to secure (viable) leases and let us run credit checks and help facilitate payment to serve as a guarantee, for the owner to safely put a unit aside for longer term.

After our involvement however, the payment terms to the owners are such -and this is in all cases (except hotels, who charge a major premium extra for running credit risks) that all do require payment by cash in the end, and they require it to be made at the key hand over when they leave you in their condo with the whole assets list.

As a solution for you, may I suggest you withdraw part only from ATM and remainder via CC, and perhaps over time span of a few days?

Please note, that in terms of safety, the stations (if you were to travel by train) is manned everywhere and security officers are all over the place, and we even have our own complex area CCTV.

I am sorry this may be inconvenient. Please understand, we use the same policies for large companies as well, using the services, and if we had more flexibility, we would have allowed more (easier) payment methods. The use of CC is less widely accepted, and that of paypal as well, by which I mean referring to the condo owners and investors. So really what we accept(like paypal be it via CC or bank funding), does not reflect what the ultimate investor accepts. This not being our call, but a term pre-set by the investors, thus represents the terms by which we and you as ultimate client are unfortunately bound.

I hope the above explains to some extent the reason behind the procedures.

Best regards,

Illynia Stann
---
Sent from my BlackBerry® device

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <tartaros>

Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 09:34:24 -0400

To: <[email protected]>

Subject: RE: <tartaros> has contacted you about Central Station(RiverView)-Parking - Roof Terrace, Amsterdam




Dear Ms Stann,

I was wondering if we could pay the remaining amount using PayPal, since it is attached to my banking account, instead of using the ATM to withdrawal euros. The reason I am asking is we have a limit on how much money can be withdrawn in a day and the limit is smaller than the amount we will need to pay you. If this does not work for you we will figure something else out but I was hoping it might work since you wanted to use PayPal earlier - though this time it would use my bank as the primary withdrawal method not a CC.

<tartaros>

As an additional caution we had a friend in the Netherlands contact the person using the number provided - which is a Singapore Mobile number (it seemed odd for a company providing rentals in the Netherlands to have their office number in Singapore). She said the lady did speak Dutch and while she was able to answer all of her questions something just seemed off.

here is the email that has the invoice.

It was from [email protected]

Hello <tartaros>,

PCS Pte Ltd sent you an invoice for €1,150.00 EUR.

Note from PCS Pte Ltd

Dear Sir, Madam, Further to your order, on behalf of our Client, we have attached a final invoice for your consideration and for payment. For payment you may wish to either bring a laptop with you, to make the payment online/ use our laptop, or alternatively call a relative to have the instant payment done for you. If you wish to continue your payment, you can do so through online instant ebank/cash. Alternatively, for Damages Deposit, we can refer you for telephone payment/paypal, however we discourage this method as we prefer you to enter your Credit Card/paypal details yourself. Please indicate arrival time (if you have not done this yet) once this is known to you, so that we can arrange for availability of staff on site. You will be contacted by staff on your mobile number, 1 hour beforehand to check on whether you will be on time or not and if you have any questions on logistics. With kind regards, Accounts Receivable PCS Pte.Ltd. Ext:+65 97280598

Ha ha !

we prefer you to enter your Credit Card/paypal details yourself.

AND THEN CLEAN YOU OUT.

I would recommend calling your credit card company to discuss this. They are usually in the favor of the buyer not the merchant. Report the charges as fraudulent and ask to have the card cancelled.


Where did you find the ad for the apartment in the first place?

The CC company, as you suggest, have their hands tied. Basically they are taking the stance of innocent until proven guilty. But the only way I can prove guilt in this case is to hand over $1150 EUR in cash. I'm not willing to take 1150 EUR cash into the trainstation make a call and wait 30 min to an hour for them to show up and take the cash. It just sounds like a good way to get myself mugged.

The website that sent us to them was:
www.expatrentals.eu

Our contact in the Netherlands (who suggested the site) talked with them about this issue and they were concerned and are going to investigate. They did say they had received a number of questions regarding the vendor but had not recieved any formal complaints.

On a side note they have my CC#, passport #, name, address and phone number. I'm assuming that I now need to worry about identity theft and will need to cancel the CC#. Report the passport as stolen and live with the identity theft issues of needing to continuously monitor my credit to ensure someone hasn't been able to open new accounts under my name. Based on the information they collected do you think I'm over reacting?

Well to put it bluntly that sucks and I am sorry to hear that the credit card company is not being more helpful. I would for sure cancel your credit card. They could sell it and cause a bunch of hassle down the road for you. If this happened to me I would not give up with the credit card company. I would keep calling until you talked to someone who would be more helpful. It may take a little work on your part to find evidence but staring out with the details of where the transaction was processed may help. Making a correlation with the companies details and how the card was processed may provide some evidence to credit card company.

As far as the passport that is up to your discretion. I would advise monitoring your credit as you plan.

Typically these scams are meant to steal your money upfront. The apartment does not exist or if it does it is not owned by the person you are in contact with. If you did go the meet the person they would not be there. This is all just a story to convince you to pay the deposit upfront. It is possible that they have an accomplice in the Netherlands that would meet you and steel your money in person but this is not the norm for this type of scam. I do agree it would be better to cut your losses now.

I am guessing they never gave you an actual address of the apartment. I have to admit from the email I can not see clear evidence this is a scam but there are red flags. I agree it is odd an office in Singapore would be managing apartments in the Netherlands. The domains are what we call "email only" with no web content which is another common sign. They are used to avoid a free email service like yahoo or gmail and give the scam more credibility. Have you checked the email headers to see if the IP resolves to Singapore? If you need help with finding headers let us know

From what I'm seeing all the coorespondance emails are coming from
[email protected]

The billing is coming from the [email protected] but they have registered in paypal as PCS Pte Ltd. Which, combined with the shady train station cash transaction, is really what started me thinking scam. Way to many company names that do not appear to have any relation to each other.

Yes if you could help me identify the headers just so I know I'm checking the right thing.

You can go here to find out how to get the headers http://www.ip-adress.com/faq/view_email_header/ then remove your details and post them here.

Authentication-Results: hotmail.com; sender-id=temperror (sender IP is 178.239.85.15) header.from=marketingdesk@amsterdamcent ... inium.info; dkim=none header.d=amsterdamcentercondominium.info; x-hmca=none

X-Message-Status: n:0:n

X-SID-PRA: [email protected]

X-DKIM-Result: None

X-AUTH-Result: NONE

X-Message-Delivery: Vj0xLjE7dXM9MDtsPTE7YT0xO0Q9MDtTQ0w9MA==

X-Message-Info: JGTYoYF78jEHjJx36Oi8+ToGKKZ652oNmPX8Mry/WrH5dl31ntSE4bYVaRkzZtOUyVxQd6XQaiXIhs7LyYXR5aU/sYJwOA4HrW2shYM7M8AElER7ZKdQCY7FPfimu9yjS7sT4P7hFFs=

Received: from smtp10.bis7.eu.blackberry.com ([178.239.85.15]) by bay0-mc1-f21.Bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675);

Tue, 30 Aug 2011 06:37:17 -0700

Received: from b16.c14.bise7.blackberry ([192.168.0.116])

by srs.bis7.eu.blackberry.com (8.13.7 TEAMON/8.13.7) with ESMTP id p7UDbFla013657

for <[email protected]>; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 13:37:15 GMT

Received: from 172.18.207.192 (cmp22.c14.bise7.blackberry [172.18.207.192])

by b16.c14.bise7.blackberry (8.13.7 TEAMON/8.13.7) with ESMTP id p7UDbFAe012143

for <[email protected]>; Tue, 30 Aug 2011 13:37:15 GMT

X-rim-org-msg-ref-id: 646159228

Message-ID: <646159228-1314711434-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-650835134-@b11.c14.bise7.blackberry>

Reply-To: [email protected]

X-Priority: Normal

References: <[email protected]><[email protected]>,<1819235410-1314627350-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1395839519-@b11.c14.bise7.blackberry><[email protected]>,<68570657-1314676569-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-381422488-@b11.c14.bise7.blackberry><[email protected]>

In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>

Sensitivity: Normal

Importance: Normal

Subject: Re: <tartaros> has contacted youaboutCentralStation(RiverView)-Parking - Roof Terrace, Amsterdam

To: <tartaros>

From: [email protected]

Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 13:37:12 +0000

Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="part9835-boundary-262480666-1034484777"

MIME-Version: 1.0

Return-Path: SRS0=dR/66m=3Q=amsterdamcentercondomini ... kberry.com

X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Aug 2011 13:37:17.0727 (UTC) FILETIME=[EF85D2F0:01CC6719]

Ok should have noticed this from your previous post they emailed from their blackberry so we are not going to get an acurate originating country.

Do you have a header from [email protected] ? This may also have been sent via blackberry but just curious.

I'm pretty sure they are hiding behind paypal for the invoice

Authentication-Results: hotmail.com; sender-id=fail (sender IP is 66.211.168.231); dkim=none header.d=cps.com.sg; x-hmca=fail

X-Message-Status: n:0:n

X-SID-Result: Fail

X-DKIM-Result: None

X-AUTH-Result: FAIL

X-Message-Delivery: Vj0xLjE7dXM9MDtsPTE7YT0xO0Q9MTtTQ0w9MA==

X-Message-Info: JGTYoYF78jEHjJx36Oi8+Z3TmmkSEdPtJFnmu5VK0Pvr759nuIkGLbyPmOtRn6NINA8pAOA+Zd2wjfC1ZLFH3rx85vWcm5JyB3ktw9nmikWkWedVpYMg3OSPpd1G0s3Z/4E+DOUO+vs=

Received: from mx1.phx.paypal.com ([66.211.168.231]) by col0-mc2-f36.Col0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675);

Tue, 30 Aug 2011 03:38:00 -0700

Received: (qmail 24589 invoked by uid 993); 30 Aug 2011 10:38:00 -0000

Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 03:38:00 -0700

Message-Id: <[email protected]>

AMQ-Delivery-Message-Id: EMAILDELIVERY-Notification_EmailDeliveryEvent-97-1314700674410-108332014

Subject: You've received an invoice (2011-04-02-0265) from PCS Pte Ltd

X-MaxCode-Template: email_invoice_notification_buyer

To: <tartaros>

From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>

Sender: sendmail (at) paypal.com

X-Email-Type-Id: PP1557

X-XPT-XSL-Name:

notifications/email/default/en_US/Customer/invoice/PayerPayInvoice.xsl

Content-Type: multipart/alternative;

boundary=--NextPart_048F8BC8A2197DE2036A

MIME-Version: 1.0

Return-Path: [email protected]

X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Aug 2011 10:38:00.0763 (UTC) FILETIME=[E3DF60B0:01CC6700]

Yes this looks like a payment request they sent through paypal. Do you have an email directly from that email address? If not no biggie just curious as to where the emails are originating.

Nope all direct emails came from amsterdamcentercondominium.info

I have read the posting from Tartaros and am experiencing the same feeling of unease as the poster had, with an Amsterdam Rental agent using the same name and a slightly different e-mail address. The e-mail address I am corresponding with is: [email protected] this address is very similar to the one the poster has concerns about. After reading his post and even prior to reading it, I was suspicious because of the method of cash payment in a train station. I too have given a holding deposit using PayPal but have been instructed to bring cash to the meeting place.
Do you have any further information from Tartaros about the outcome with his deposit money?