Room for Rent and other rental scams
by potatoman Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:50 am
Hi all this is a repost from the associated 419eater forum (http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=207064), but I'm really keen to get feedback, so have reposted here as forum seems more active. So many things don't add up, but it's unlike any scam I've read about..

Ok so having nothing better to do I was doing some scambaiting (it's something I do from time to time, I haven't joined up to any scambaiting forums before). Was looking for short term apartment rental in Singapore, and replied to an ad that's been posted on a few free sites (craiglist amongst others).

In this situation, after a few warning flags I did extensive background checking, and I'm convinced it's a scam. But here's the kicker - today I organised a viewing of the apartment, and I was certain there would be a cancellation. No!! I actually met the girl advertising the apartment. I would actually move in, but I'm so convinced it's a scam, I had to tell her I would only hand money over when I have my luggage at the door (more on that later). I'm too worried about someone changing the locks on the door or something, this is the only way I can see the scam ending. In truth, would probably be worse if I had all my stuff in the apartment then they decided to change the locks LOL. Seriously, I had it all planned out in my head, that if I did meet someone, they would make some excuse about having lost the keys or something, so I was amazed when shown the apartment, and it actually matched the photos.

Anyway I'm wanting comments on what people think about this, I mean maybe I'm wrong - but there is a way to check, so if anyone at all can help me confirm this is a scam (will detail how to later), please do, as I'd like to get to the bottom of this. Now I could confirm the scam myself by asking about the inconsistencies, but she'll be onto me then, and I won't have the opportunity to bait any further.

So here we go, there's a lot to digest..

18-Aug-2011
I send SMS for ad posted here: http://classifieds.singaporeexpats.com/ ... 40&cat=122
Apartment for S$280 in Orchard Chinatown. Phone contact 8168-7401, poster ID 'pikachoo', posted 14-Aug-2011.

Response: "This is a master room. The $280 is for common rooms with shared bathrooms. We only accept singles for couples per room. No sharing. The master room is $300 per week. Excluding utilities. It comes fully furnish with tv, wifi, washer, dryer. This is a private apt, not hdb. The other tenants in the apt is long term white collar professionals. An Australian guy and Canadian guy. Thanks and regards.

So I give her a call back immediately, and talk with her a bit. All sounds good, I ask about the guys I'll be sharing with, she says they're often out of Singapore on business, so I mightn't even get to see them [red flag]. I tell her I'm looking for a place pretty soon, if she could send pictures, if all looks good we can arrange viewing. The says she has another party interested in the apartment, and will contact me if that falls through [partial red flag, adding sense of urgency].

19-Aug-2011
She sends through pictures later next morning:
"hi sorry for the late reply I was out till very late last night. the room is still available. It is a master room in Chinatown. pix are attached. This is a 1700 sq ft apartment directly above chinatown mrt. The flat is located at people park center (note: people park center and not people park complex. yeah it gets confusing sometimes!) The room comes fully furnished, study desk, tv etc. Note the bathroom is small. The other tenants are long term. Australian guy and Canadian guy both white-collar professionals. That spends most of the time travelling. The place is very clean as the maid comes every week for 5 hours. Wifi is also included. There is a washer and dryer but no cooking facilities. (fridge and microwave is provided)"
[red flag, maid 5 hours a week for a small apartment?? especially since, as described later, the apartment is bare, doesn't look lived in]

along with SMS
"Sorry for the late reply. Have sent u email. Pls text me if u are interested. As I am heading to office now and would be in meetings till lunch time. Thanks and regards."

So email conversation goes as follows

me: The room looks great, so if I wanted to move in, how exactly should we proceed?
her: Just pay the Room rental price of $300 per week and the utility of $50 per week up front multiply by the number of weeks you intend to stay. There is a $100 refundable deposit which will be returned to you when you leave. I would just need a copy of your passport, that is it.
her: Are you still interested in the room? the reason I am asking is that I will be overseas from tomorrow late afternoon. So if you intend to take the room I need to make the arrangements. Before I go.
[red flag, she's splitting the scene]
me: am interested, but in terms of arrangements what I meant is how we go about this, do I pay on arrival at the apartment, do I meet you at the apartment a day before to get shown around, and pay/collect keys etc? Just have to juggle moving into the apartment with current hotel rental (going hotel rental by the day at the moment).
her: hi yes payment upfront on arrival at the apartment. I will give you a receipt and the keys and wifi password. if you want to come earlier to inspect the place before checking out of your hotel to be sure. That is ok as well. I will then pass you the key and you can decide at your on leisure pace on what time you want to move in. so if you want to meet tomorrow say 11 am? that is ok as well.
me: Hi sorry for the delay. 11am meeting will be fine with me, so we can meet at the Chinatown MRT? I'll check my email around 10:30am for confirmation from you that 11am is fine, or alternatively just send a message, then I'll head over. Will any of the other tenants be there, I know you said some of them aren't living there all the time (there were three others living there, right)?
her: ok c u Smile . we meet at chinatown mrt. People Park Complex exit. 2 others are living there. I would need a copy of your passport if you are checking in. Also could you please share what profession you are in? Thanks! The other 2 long term tenants (6 months minimum) are finance and IT.
[major red flag, active listing I found later says there are 3 tenants there]
me: I work in the IT sector (software programmer), right now I'm looking for work. Out of interest, what is the monthly rate for long term rental at this apartment? I thought Australia was expensive for rent, but Singapore seems more expensive again. Will bring my passport along, see you soon.
me: Oh sorry forgot to ask, were you a friend of the tenants (landlord), or operating as an rental agent?
her: long term the room rent is $1450. yes! rent in SG is expensive! no my parents own the place but we don't live there. (so there is no agent fees) there ask my help to get long term tenants as part of their retirement income. the english engineer occupying the room has just left. I am looking for long term tenants for that room but in the interim if the room is vacant, short term visitors are welcome.

So at this point I'm committed to meeting her, scam or not - if it's not a scam, good have some cheap accomodation, if it is, I'm happy to play along.

20-Aug-2011
I'm researching scams until the wee hours of the morning, trying to find a precedent, but cannot find one. I have not read a single scam article where you got to not only meet the scammer, but view the apartment. I read about one case, where a guy and his lawyer signed documents (but I don't think viewed the apartment). When the person went to the apartment at the move in date, it was already occupied (I think managed to take legal action though).. So I start researching the ads, reverse image search, phone number search etc, to see where that leads.

So first hit, user 'pikachoo' has a second ad posted, which is the Chinatown MRT one (looks to be same property I'm going to view). This ad posted 8-August-2011.
http://classifieds.singaporeexpats.com/ ... uct/189993
Multiple red flags - master bedroom picture is different from what she sent, one of the other pictures matches what she sent, so one can assume it's the same apartment, sort of.. Ad says sharing with three other people (Chinese girl as well), not two as indicated. Advertised for long term rental (6 months minimum). Asking price listed as $1850, but ad itself states $1950, as though it's a rush job.

Second hit, a different user (on the same site) 'natsu', has posted similar ad on 14-Aug-2011, with the same contact number..
http://classifieds.singaporeexpats.com/ ... uct=190442
This ad is worded almost exactly the same. Except the master bedroom picture actually matches the one I was sent in email. It only displays the one picture. Price listed as $1450, ad states $1600, so again all these inconsistencies. So ad same, price and pictures different.

Third hit, http://singapore.craigslist.com.sg/roo/2546286829.html, posted 15-Aug-2011.
Cut down version of the previous two ads, but has a *different* contact number. Price at $1600

When I do a search on that new contact number, I see they've advertised multiple share accomodations, all with a similar kind of description (not in Chinatown though).

Ok so I think you'll agree something is grossly wrong with this picture, I can simply ask the girl what is going on, and unless she has a bloody good explanation (is legit), chances are she'll just realize she's been caught out and no longer play with me :(.

**The meeting**

So I head off the the designated spot, and to my amazement she doesn't cancel. I actually meet her, and get taken to the apartment - walk straight past a security guard at the building as well, bold as you like. Kind of wanted to talk to him afterwards.. I notice her digging through her backpack to find the key, I see at least 5-6 sets of keys.. Now the apartment is exactly as in the pictures she sent me by email. However aside from a microwave and kettle, all I see is the master room and a big arse mostly empty loungeroom except for a couch and table with flowers (as in photos). It simply doesn't look like the place is being lived in, if I had to guess, it's how a real estate agent would present the place for inspections. Note in the ad it said limited cooking facilities, that's because from what I could see, the kitchen simply wasn't decked out with what you'd need to cook properly.
Anyway I explain to her I feel uncomfortable handing money over in advance, I'd rather pay on check-in. I go on to explain that there's a lot of rental scams in Singapore, and it's not unheard of for the locks to simply be changed on someone, and what kind of recourse would I have from that. She actually makes the offer to put me in touch with one of the other flatmates by phone, to have a chat with them. Wow, that's what I was going to suggest to see if it put her off, she's got her bases covered. I say look if you can have a friend wait at the apartment for tomorrow, I'll hand the money over then, no problem. Apparently she doesn't know anyone who could do this for her, plausible but unlikely. She says she's away for a week, so I say ok maybe when you get back I can check in, she agrees, and I leave.

So, there you have it. Can someone please shed some light on this scam. It is a scam, right? If someone can contact her on that number, and organise a viewing, it will confirm it's a scam. Because she said she's going to be away for at least a week, and nobody will be available to let me into the apartment. If it is indeed a scam, oh what a beautiful opportunity for scambaiting!! But it just seems beyond belief that she would present in person, if it is a scam. I'm really confused on this one. Finally, Orchid/Chinatown area seems to be a known rental scam area, but usually you get the wire transfer in advance thing..

All the scam experts out there, please help and share your insights!!
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by Katharina Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:25 pm
You said it yourself: There are a lot of red flags, but no proof. Anyway, you shouldn't have met that girl if you already suspected it was fishy. Scammers are criminals!

As for your "baiting" - did you take precautions to stay anonymous? Probably your emails don't hide the IP they are coming from. Please stop baiting for now, join a baiting forum and learn the ropes for your own safety's sake.
by potatoman Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:02 pm
That's the thing, I can get fairly solid proof by seeing if a repeat appointment can be organised within the week. I met the girl as I'm curious to see how it played out, if she was legit (apartment had some people there I could meet, and I could pay them on arrival), I would have rented the apartment. If it was obviously a scam (she declined inspection but asked for money up front) I would have confronted her on the spot. I understand they're criminals, but public area, in the CBD of Singapore, I believe risks are minimal. On the anonymity front, getting unwanted visitors, I don't have a fixed address, so not a big deal if they're tracing IPs.

What surprises me is Singapore law enforcement comes down really hard on crims, so I'm still really confused a scammer would expose themself in this way. She's clearly lied about the place (english engineer having 'just left', despite talking of Chinese girl living there). Most of all I'm interested in hearing of a precedent.
by Gateway Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:06 pm
I have to agree with Katharina on this one, you should NEVER meet anyone you suspect of being a Scammer, she could have turned up with a couple of Heavies and next you disappear.

Probably extreme case scenario but you get what I am saying.

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