Possibly auto trader scam?

I'm currently selling a bike on autotrader on behalf of my wife and was contacted by email. The original mail was quite short (which I won't quote details here unless the Admins think this is definitely a scam), and included the buyers UK phone number and asked us to confirm our location (which I hadn't mentioned in the advert).

I responded to the mail, but as I was pressing enter to send it, the buyer's husband rang (from the number mentioned in the email) to ask the same question. I responded with the details and it all sounded quite legit, with him asking sensible and reasonable questions. We finished the call and agreed that he would call back if any more questions.

The second call came an hour or so later and was from his wife (who the bike is for), she again asked some sensible questions, and as the bike is a little specific and hard to find she offered to purchase it based on the photos only as they are a few hours drive away, with the plan that they would collect it in a few weeks. My wife gave her bank account number and sort code in return for their name and address details. They say they will transfer the cash via bank transfer tonight, then contact us during the week to arrange collection.

The phone number code does seem to check out to the same general area as the address given.

Things that make me suspect a scam:

Willing to pay for goods without seeing them by bank transfer.
Buyer hasn't passed motorbike test and originally said he'd come and collect it after passing his test in the next week or two, but would we store it in the meantime.
Buyer on second call said they may be able to get a friend to collect the bike.
Buyer requested bank details for online transfer/home address/phone etc.

Having said all of that, both callers seemed very plausible, asked the 'right' kind of questions that a person who had not passed their test might ask when buying their first motorbike.

My concerns are also that my wife has already given out her bank account details along with name, address, and mobile number. What should we do to protect ourselves if this does turn out to be scam?

[AlanJones]

Hello oopsadaisy and welcome to ScamWarners.

I wouldn't worry to much about having given out bank details to this person, as there is little that they can do with them except put a payment into your account. However, if it makes you feel more comfortable speak to your bank and let then know what has happened and ask their advice.

My main concern with them wanting to pay by bank transfer is that they will 'flash' your account with the cash, pick up the bike and then leave you out of pocket when your bank finds out that the transfer is fraudulent. However, it is unusual for scammers such as this to actually collect the item they are buying, normally they will try and get you to transfer some money by Western Union to a "shipper" who will collect the item.

A safer course of action might be to contact them back and tell them that you will hold the bike for a small deposit, with the rest to be paid cash on collection. That way if it is all a scam, you've only lost a smaller amount. Additionally, you could ask for proof of identity from them when they collect it - that way if they do try and pull something, you've got the information that you need for a small claims court action.

Thanks Alan, some good advice there.

They have now mailed to say the money has been transferred & requesting an email confirming the agreement and saying it would be a couple of weeks before they could collect the bike.

Did a reverse lookup on the phone number with BT and it linked to a business, which listed someone of the same first name as the husband on their website, so they check out as real people I guess. One thing did stand out is that although the first name checks out, the surname she is using in email is different to that mentioned on the business website but there are plenty of legitimate reasons for that I guess.

If there is a request for sending of any cash to them for any reason then we'll be ready for it, but they seem in no hurry to collect, so we'll see if the money clears, then insist on a personal collection with ID etc.

Any ideas on how long is 'safe' to ensure a UK bank transfer has gone through properly please?

[AlanJones]

Unfortunately, it can take weeks or even months for the banking system to discover that a payment is fraudulent.

A fake payment could be made in one of 2 ways -
1. by a BACS transfer into your account from a hacked or phished account. In this scenario, it wouldn't be discovered until the owner of the account complained about the transfer (which can take a while if the account belonged to a company).
2. by a fake cheque being deposited into your account. Here it depends on how good the fake is as to how long it takes for it to be discovered.

It might be worth contacting your bank in the morning and explaining the situation to them and see if they can do any checks into the legitimacy of the transfer - they might be able to match the name of the payee against the names you have, or confirm whether it was a BACS transfer or a cheque being paid in.

Normally though, scammers would be in a rush to get the cash/goods, so the fact that the buyer seems to be in no rush is a plus. Although you do need to be wary, if they suddenly change their mind and ask for a refund, this could be another way of converting fake cash into (your) real cash for them.

Thanks again Alan, sounds like the best plan is to check out the name with the bank. If that matches and they don't try to rush us or come up with any further surprises then we're as ok as you're going to get..