Barclays Bank Ebay fraud

Hi
Just been scammed most likely by the same guy about a mini digger - Price 3550£.
But - I have a clue I would like to investigate a bit further - after a long search by a lot of my friends, we are now linked up with another Ebay user who might or might not be part of this Scam. I have found out that the Pictures I received by the imposter was actually uploaded once by this other guy.
So - in order to find out if this has anything to do with the scamming guy - can any of you send me some of the Pictures you once received describing the items you were about to buy?
If we in anyway can link the Pictures to the same guy, it might be a way to find out who is behind some of this.

Welcome to Scamwarners jsteffen.

I have been investigating the scam construction and agricultural machine scammers in some depth and have a wealth of information, and I have even identified some of the groups involved. You can see my work in the scam website forum.

To complicate matters they aren't all the same and it's dangerous to jump to conclusions just over the pictures they use. What really counts is details of the account where the money was sent. If you want to pm me the details and the name they're using I will probably recognise it. Even if I know identities I can't do anything without a victim who has account details. If they can be matched up then the scammer has reason to get twitchy.

Nothing would please me more than to get one of these scammers prosecuted, but you have to be realistic about what you consider to be evidence. The rule is always - follow the money.

Fingers crossed.

Hi There, just an update to depress us all. I finally got a letter from Barclays fraud team confirming the account was used fraudulently( no shit Sherlock) and they had closed it but as there was no money in the account(surprise surprise) I would get nothing back.As far as they were concerned the case was closed. They were not prepared to prosecute the account holder as they explained that was a criminal offence which if I wished to pursue would have to inform the police who in turn would have to get in touch with Barclays as due to data protection they could not give me any personal information! the FSO are not interested as are the police and having spent £270 on a solicitors opinion, I give up and conclude that crime does pay! I have drafted a report to send to watch dog and the CEO of Barclays. Which magazine again were not interested.If anyone has any ideas on how to successfully proceed further then Im all ears.
Best wishes to all
Arnie

The situation is outrageous, and I don't say this as an ill-informed fool, because I spent my whole working life working for a UK bank which does give me some insight in to what's going on.

The problem is that people, and the authorities, put some confidence in a bank account as representing a means of identifying a person and, before anyone jumps on me, companies and government departments do too. Take PayDay loan companies as an example. One company lost millions not too long ago and was forced out of business.

There has been a fundamental change in the method in which electronic payments are made and, banks are much more lax in identifying people when they open bank accounts (or fake ID is much more readily available). This being the case we've only seen the tip of the iceberg and a flood of fraud will hit the UK, the likes of which has never been seen before in the not too distant future. If the banks can't cope with it, government departments certainly won't.

Though you are not likely to get your money back the only recourse you have is as a consumer and a member of the electorate by lobbying your MP and refusing to deal with banks that have let you down. This is a major problem and it's going to get a heck of a lot bigger and, with an election coming up, the electorate have influence. The current flaws and laxities in the banking system need to be dealt with otherwise UK banking will get a worse reputation that it already has and it gives me no pleasure to say this.

Hi to all who find ourselves on here in the same boat and have had to join this forum in the hope we can all work together to hopefully achieve the same goal. I was taken for 3k last week (13th aug), replied to an ad on gumtree, no answer on mobile so emailed address that was on ad, had a reply directing me to a FAKE but genuine looking gumtree page with all the details of the vehicle and also payment details as the vehicle was going to be sold by them aka gumtree/fraudsters, them saying i had 48hrs to inspect the vehicle before i said yes or no to buying it and also paying money from my bank to yes youve guested it BARCLAYS bank via direct bank transfer FROM natwest, i was re-assured by these 2 factors, bank details as follows:


SORT 20-29-41
ACCOUNT 93464067 BARCLAYS BANK PLC(EDGWARE GROUP(2)) ?Bank Account reported - CW

went to police who directed me to action fraud were i got a crime number!!, gave all my information to natwest, barclays ,action fraud and gumtree, gumtree are a waste of time but i am going to persue them for the £50 in charges i have been billed on my mobile for trying to contact them!!. Still waiting to hear back from the banks, i hold NO HOPE hearing back from action fraud. I have also joined another forum called legalbeagles.info which is definately worth a look as there are many other on there who are in the same boat as we all find ourselves in. hope to hear back from someone very soon please, i am in the opinion that yes AS A GROUP WE ARE MORE POWERFULL AND HARDER TO "FOB OFF" , as my user name suggests i will carry this forward for as long as it takes to get back what is rightfully mine thanks dogwithabone

I regret to say that the general attitude of UK banks and UK authorities when you have been scammed by a criminal is that you should shut up and go away. You may be surprised to hear that banks don't even count such crimes in their fraud statistics, so that they can appear to be improving fraud control no matter how many criminals (or potentially terrorists) launder funds through their bank accounts.

It's an appalling and outrageous situation and the police and banks have a well-oiled strategy to deal with victims that doesn't appear to exist in dealing with criminals. Action Fraud isn't a part of the police and appears to act as a means of isolating the police from dealing with crime - but you do get a crime number - whoopee.

UK banks have become so lax in their procedures that it is supporting crime worldwide and there have been many examples where major frauds in countries like the USA, The Middle East and Australia have relied on accounts set up with UK banks.

The banks and UK authorities make it clear that whether the person receiving your money is an innocent dupe or an arrow (the Romanian term for a person who sets up scam accounts specifically for use in fraud), they are committing a crime. That being the case it is more than a little strange then that the bank is allowed to withhold the person's identity. The point being that in most cases the account is not in the name you are given, highlighting another procedural flaw in that no check is made in the UK payments system that the name matches the account number. Such an anonymising service is only of benefit to criminals and fraudsters and opens up a vast spectrum of potential frauds.

Until recently the same bank accounts were being reported again and again over a period of months making it quite obvious that victim complaints were being completely ignored. This is happening less and less but this may just be because the fraudsters are churning accounts faster than before.

What amazes me most of all is that being known to hold the bank accounts of fraudsters and scammers is disastrous for a bank's reputation and the cost of that is incalculable. Banks have long known that the cache of their name and reputation is worth billions, so how they can so readily squander it is utterly incomprehensible, especially at a time when banks generally don't enjoy the best of reputations.

As you say dogwithabone, consumer and electoral pressure will be the best means of causing change, or making the authorities enforce legislation that already exists.

From my own research most of the accounts are set up by 'arrows', so that the contention by the authorities that they are mostly run by dupes is misleading, and I believe purposely so. They do not wish it to be known the scale on which the banking system has been penetrated and how easy it is to do it. I have seen examples of the fake ID's used to open bank accounts and they are not impressive. Money laundering legislation states that those who allow these accounts to be opened risk prison, but I have not discovered one example of this ever happening.

The UK has the tightest money laundering legislation in the world, but rarely is it ever enforced. In one recent court case it was pointed out that people still turn up at banks with suitcases of cash and open accounts, no questions asked.

it really makes me so angry that I feel like doing something really stupid, but at least it would get notice, where is the fathers for justice man, we could hire him out, and he could bring Barclays to a standstill and cost them tens of thousands pounds, I would feel a bit better then

I know how you feel steveffc69, but I'm sure that if you did, the authorities would spare no expense and leave no stone unturned to track you down and throw you in prison.

Any bank that doesn't comprehend the harm it does to their reputation to be associated with fraudulent accounts, doesn't understand banking or marketing. Of course the underlying risk is that those accounts will be used to defraud the bank itself.

The apparent injustice of the situation is likely to be self-correcting for those reasons.

hello all, hope your well, just a quick update on my fraud, its still with the police so has been referred by action fraud to them, got a name and number of the person dealing with it so been trying to speak to them but no joy yet!, BARCLAYS have written to me saying

"at the time your funds were received into this account, we had no knowledgethat this was anything other than a legitimate account. although we can confirm that the account into which you tranferred money has now been closed, no funds were remaining at the time that we were made aware of your situation.for this reason barclays is unable to return any money to you."

i went my bank natwest bank tues 13th and made transfer about3pm, i went into barclays on sat 17th at 10am and reported it so have to write to barclays customer response team in coventry and to ask them several questions about this. also on my bank statement it states i paid GUMTREE UK ? so have i paid that into a bussiness account?? if so the person who owns the account should have id for that said bussiness, if i payed who it states i paid on my bank statement GUMTREE UK which doesn't exist would i have a case against my bank?? hav'nt heard from my bank yet, ive demanded they help as a customer/consumer of that bank and i want them to help me get my money back, havn't heard back from yet, THIS CANT BE JUST A COINSIDANCE THAT THESE CRIMINALS ARE USING BARCLAYS TO STEAL AND LAUNDER MONEY FROM PEOPLE MOST OF THE ACCOUNTS COMING FROM THE LONDON AREA!!

Has anyone else had any developments? thanks for reading dogwithabone

The problem is dogwithabone that banking law and regulation is basically devised and operated under the guidance of banks and it's hardly surprising that modern payment systems and all processes have put the customer and consumer at a severe disadvantage, and greater risk than previous systems.

Allow me to provide an example.

If you had paid the seller by cheque crossed 'Account Payee' then you would know that the receiving account would be named exactly as mentioned on your cheque, and you would have grounds to get your money back if they hadn't, and you could raise serious questions as to how the bank allowed someone to open a bank account using the name of a well known global company.

Using the current electronic payment system the name you put on the transfer could be anything and it is irrelevant as regards who the funds are paid to. Theoretically you could put the name Billy the Kid on every payment you make and its destination would still only be determined by the sorting code and account number.

The implications as regards money laundering and terrorist funding are diabolical. As much as I can't say that the funds are buying arms for terrorism, banks who hold these accounts can't say they aren't.

The UK tends to have a superior and overbearing arrogance as regards the sophistication of its banking systems but when the best a bank can do when it's pointed out their services are being used to perform crime is basically to say 'WHOOPS' then it appears that we have adopted the Nigerian banking model - with apologies to Nigeria.

The individual frauds being performed against people are bad enough but the laughable ease with which criminals can reliably open fraudulent bank accounts in the UK has attracted organised crime with greater aspirations. Once a means of disposing of funds has been established, the methods crime gangs are using to initiate fraudulent payments is infinite and only requires one flaw in the security of another system. One novel method used in the USA was to add hundreds of employees to a hospital payroll who were due to be paid over the weekend, but the possibilities are infinite.

No security is perfect, but when you have a known security defect such as the payee name being irrelevant in electronic payments, allied with sloppy and lax account opening procedures, it makes it a lot easier to discover another system with a fault to exploit. Normally the chances of getting all three exploits to occur at once can be considered to make cracking bank security an isolated occurrence, but by allowing two out of three to become established as normal procedure, it actually encourages criminals.

There's currently another exploit being performed against local government authorities in the UK where the potential rewards are much greater, and the cost to the community high. Without the means to dispose of fraudulently acquired funds, it wouldn't be possible.

Coincidentally this new item appeared on the BBC News today

http://news.sky.com/story/1141118/santander-bank-hacking-plot-foiled-by-police

Santander Bank Hacking Plot Foiled By Police

Officers arrest 12 men over an attempt to steal millions of pounds by taking control of computers at a branch of Santander.

The point being that unless the criminals have hundreds of ready set up accounts waiting to launder the funds the fraud is pointless. Trying to rely on only one security procedure to protect the integrity of your banking system, and allowing the rest to go to pot, is utterly insane.

The current insecurities make the banking system too attractive as a target and they won't give up. Ironically the ambition of the criminals is probably what let them down, as there are much more readily accessible entry points to the UK computer banking network. I'm impressed, but equally the criminals don't know quite enough to pull off an effective large scale fraud, but it won't be long before they do.

Perhaps the authorities will pay attention when they take a bank down.

I myself use online banking and I make payments electronically but I know the risks and limitations of the system. Even with my cautious approach, if a criminal knew what he should target, he could use the automated payments system as a means to generate huge fraud no matter how careful a customer is.

There is no little irony in the likelihood that the payment system operated by Paypal may potentially be more secure than that operated by banks, as long as the customer knows what he's doing and operates it correctly. It all boils down to which system gives you the best recourse in the event of fraud, and banks may have taken away their responsibility to an extent that makes them second best.

One final and pertinent observation.

In spite of ebay, Gumtree and other ad sites being global operations, the only country where scammers are apparently able to utilise fraudulently opened accounts to perform organised fraud on a large scale, is the UK.

When scammers engineered a holiday fraud in Australia utilising fraudulently opened bank accounts they didn't use ones opened in Australia. As much as this issue affects individuals, the problem is actually one of a fundamental fallibility within the UK banking system.

most common folk use there bank account to receive there wages etc...... and pay bills and use are bank account on a regular weekly or monthly basis were there is a clear pattern of our transactions. if an account holder (double e) opens a bank account and has no payments like wages or no payments made on that account to say for example british gas or bt or any other monthly bills then suddenly receives say maybe 1 2 3 4 5 transfer payments (STOLEN MONEY) goes in and withdrawn. as i am sure it will emerge that every account used by the fraudsters was inactive BEFORE the money was even withdrawn !!

it won't be long before we see a site like this appear on our shores!! http://www.ebaymotorssucks.com/2013/...ites-the-dust/ ebay owns gum tree too so why is this MASSIVE problem not being addressed?

It's hardly surprising.

Luckily or unluckily I have a lot of time to spend on researching these frauds and I'm currently looking at a fraudster operating four different ebay accounts. I couldn't prove that they're the same person behind them all in a court of law but my evidence leaves little doubt. Being able to do this means that the person can run fake auctions and pump up his feedback scores. I've even found examples of the same car, with the same description being offered on the different accounts. It puzzles me that the person appears to have even managed to get adverse comments removed.

Frankly the scale of fraud appears even greater as he also advertises cars on Gumtree but the adverts rarely last very long there before they get scrubbed. The number of phone sim cards he has is impressive and I'm having to record them on a spreadsheet.

I suspect it's quite a large gang and I believe that they have other associates using the same ploy.

I could take up the issue of the 4 ebay accounts with ebay now, but I'd prefer to watch and research what they're doing. I could also post examples of the ads they've been using, but that is most likely to scare them off and just cause them to assume other identities. then I'd have to start all over again.

This isn't unique to any one ad site and all those I've looked at have had scammers operating on them.

Not many people have the time and patience to do what I do, but as long as scammers have to worry that there are any people like me about, then they better be careful, and the more careful they are, the less successful they'll be.

I've just checked on Gumtree and the problem I have is that there are so many scams ads on there it makes it difficult to isolate the group I'm looking at, and I'm just looking at one specific city.

Just tagged a corker - an ebay seller with a feedback score of 2 ran an auction and sold a car to a buyer with a feedback score of 5 and the same car is now on Gumtree using the same wording as appeared in the original seller's ad.

It could be quite legitimate - and perhaps I'll see a formation of pigs flying over my house this afternoon.

This latest one has some interesting features that are potentially quite disturbing. Again It's best I say nothing or I may tip him off.

This is such a neat trick, I'll describe how it works.

With two ebay accounts a disreputable car trader runs a fake auction on ebay and appears to sell it to someone else. It is then put for sale on Gumtree after a log book loan has been taken out. Of course if someone buys it, it appears that the auction winner has taken out the loan and anyone who buys the bargain on Gumtree gets their car repossessed and the trader is laughing all the way to the bank as the victim chases a seller who never existed in the first place.